{"id":9500,"date":"2018-06-17T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-06-16T22:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/aspeninstitutece.softmedia.cz\/article\/2018\/erhard-busek-brussels-learn-talk-central-eastern-europe\/"},"modified":"2024-09-30T20:24:30","modified_gmt":"2024-09-30T18:24:30","slug":"erhard-busek-brussels-learn-talk-central-eastern-europe","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/article\/2018\/erhard-busek-brussels-learn-talk-central-eastern-europe\/","title":{"rendered":"Erhard Busek: Brussels Has to Learn How to Talk with Central and Eastern Europe"},"content":{"rendered":"
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It\u2019s profoundly unfair to blame solely the new democracies of Visegrad group for anti-European sentiments\u2014says Erhard Busek in an interview with Jakub Majmurek.<\/strong><\/p>\n

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JAKUB MAJMUREK: Year 2018 marks not only the one-hundred-year anniversary of the end of World War I, but also of the end of the reign of House of Habsburg and Habsburg Empire. Is that issue discussed in Austria today? Do you believe that the legacy of Habsburg Empire is still significant for the Central and Eastern Europe?<\/h2>\n

ERHARD BUSEK: I wouldn\u2019t necessarily say that it\u2019s very widely discussed here, in Austria. It\u2019s clearly not an issue which would be crucial for contemporary Austrian politics. And as for the Central and Eastern Europe, I\u2019d say that what is still important for the politics of the region is perhaps not the legacy of Habsburgs, but of the disintegration of their rule, and the wave of nationalism following it after the end of the World War I.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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One can argue that today as well we can observe a kind of populist, anti-European revolt in the Central and Eastern Europe, led by such politicians as Viktor Orba\u0301n or Jaros\u0142aw Kaczyn\u0301ski. Would you agree with that opinion?<\/h2>\n

First of all, it needs to be said that a populist wave is going through the whole Europe. There\u2019s a lot of populism in developed, Western democracies. Look at what is happening in France, in Belgium, in the Netherlands, and so on, and so forth. Look at the US, where Trump won presidential elections campaigning with \u201cAmerica First.\u201d<\/p>\n

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One can also point to Austria in that matter. The government of Christian-Democratic Chancellor Sebastian Kurz is supported by a populist Freedom Party.<\/h2>\n

Yes, it\u2019s happening for the second time. I think that it would be a challenge both for Europe and Chancellor Kurz to learn how to handle that situation, how to block the Freedom Party from leading the government in the populist direction. But, to come back to the Central and Eastern Europe, I think it\u2019s profoundly unfair to blame solely the new democracies of Visegrad group for anti-European sentiments.<\/p>\n

Western European political and opinion leaders are very often lacking basic knowledge about the Central and Eastern Europe, they\u2019ve got no clue what is really happening there.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

For a long time I\u2019ve been criticizing the way in which the Western countries, old member states of the EU, perceive what is happening in the so-called East (which is actually the middle of Europe). Western European political and opinion leaders are very often lacking basic knowledge about the Central and Eastern Europe, they\u2019ve got no clue what is really happening there. They\u2019re often treating Central and Eastern Europe like it was one homogenous block. While in reality, the situation in Czechia is rather different than that in Poland, or in the Hungary. Look at the Czech Republic. The economy is really good, the country is cooperating with European institutions, and, despite some obvious problems, the general situation doesn\u2019t look that bad.<\/p>\n

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What do you think about the recent developments in Slovakia, where Robert Fico had to resign as the head of government after mass protests following the assassination of the investigative journalist Ja\u0301n Kuciak?<\/h2>\n

I was very impressed with what I saw in Slovakia. It was the biggest mobilization in that country since the fall of communism. Once again, it shows that we can\u2019t treat Central-Eastern Europe as one, homogeneous bloc. That we sometimes have to talk directly to the civil society in the region. We witnessed how the citizens of Slovakia raised against the corrupted politics of their government. This is something which should be supported. But in order to be able to do it, we need the knowledge about differences between the situation in Slovakia and let\u2019s say Poland. Ignorance in that matter is making a genuine discussion about the real problems of the region very difficult.<\/p>\n

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And the real problems of the region are?<\/h2>\n

The main problem of Central and European countries is their own history. They\u2019ve all left the communist system still no so long ago. Perhaps not long enough to develop stable democracies. And even the stable democracies are currently facing very grave challenges: globalization, technological changes, mass migration.<\/p>\n

I was very impressed with what I saw in Slovakia. It was the biggest mobilization in that country since the fall of communism.<\/p>\n

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It can all understandably lead to some primitive, populist reactions, both in the new democracies and the old. There\u2019s an old joke about a man who says \u201cIt\u2019s horrible how everyone is thinking only about himself, only I think about myself!\u201d\u2014and this is how European politics does look like today.<\/p>\n

Do you think that Western European elites have a feeling that countries of \u201cNew Europe\u201d gave up on integration, that they want to opt-out from European project?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Once again, it\u2019s a misunderstanding. We can\u2019t assume that the people living in Central and Eastern Europe would become Europeans the day after their countries join European Union. It\u2019s a long, demanding process. Visegrad countries and their societies still have a lot to learn about living in integrated Europe and the Western countries should teach them showing some patience and empathy in that process. European leaders have to talk with each other. They can\u2019t just make announcements in the media. I\u2019ve been criticizing Austrian government for some time that it stopped talking with Orba\u0301n\u2014we used to have many meetings with Hungarian government. If we still had, it could help solve some problems.<\/p>\n

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Some European leaders, like French President Emmanuel Macron, believe that the differences you\u2019re talking about should be reflected in the structure of the EU, in the project of \u201ctwo-speed Europe.\u201d<\/h2>\n

I think it\u2019s a terrible idea. In Central and Eastern Europe it\u2019s\u2014quite rightly I believe\u2014regarded as discriminatory towards new member states. And it\u2019s just natural that when you feel that you\u2019re discriminated, you\u2019re trying to protect yourself\u2014this is how the Eastern part of EU is reacting to Macron\u2019s proposals.<\/p>\n

It shows that we can\u2019t treat Central-Eastern Europe as one, homogeneous bloc.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Do you think that Macron\u2019s plans for tighter integration of the eurozone have any chance of success?<\/h2>\n

I\u2019m not sure about that. If you look at Angela Merkel, she sounds a bit different than Macron when she\u2019s talking about the future of Europe. She\u2019s rather in favor\u00a0of sort of compromise with Central and Eastern European countries. Macron\u2019s proposals are not generally accepted even in France\u2014French parliament hasn\u2019t yet made any decision on that subject.<\/p>\n

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One of the main points of a heated discussion between the \u201cNew\u201d and the \u201cOld\u201d Europe is the process of relocation of refugees. Why did it become such a huge issue in the Central and Eastern Europe?<\/h2>\n

Once again: it all comes down to the lack of dialogue. The European institutions are dictating the terms of relocation, there\u2019s no real discussion with Eastern European partners. We should also remember that Western countries did actually very little to help the Italians and Greeks with the refugee crisis. We can\u2019t blame Orba\u0301n for everything, can we?<\/p>\n

The main problem of Central and European countries is their own history. They\u2019ve all left the communist system still no so long ago. Perhaps not long enough to develop stable democracies.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

But don\u2019t you think that the proposition that Poland should accept less than 10 thousand refugees is actually quite reasonable? It shouldn\u2019t be so controversial, should it?<\/h2>\n

The issue is not with the numbers, but with the lack of debate. The public opinion in \u201cNew Europe\u201d can have a legitimate feeling that Europe is forcing them to accept the refugees, that it\u2019s not respecting the democratic decisions of the Central and Eastern European nations.<\/p>\n

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There\u2019s an ongoing argument between European Commission and Polish government about the rule of law in Poland and their reforms of the judiciary. How should European institutions deal with Poland?<\/h2>\n

I think that European Union is totally correct here. Polish government is breaking the rules of the EU. Brussels should criticize and put pressure on Polish government, but at the same time talk with it. When was the last meeting between any important politician of the European Commission and Mr. Kaczyn\u0301ski?<\/p>\n

Well, one can argue that Mr. Kaczyn\u0301ski is just a member of Polish Parliament, he doesn\u2019t hold any office.<\/h2>\n

Sorry, but it\u2019s a silly answer. You need all your resources to influence the decisions of Polish government. Nothing bad would happen if one of the EU commissioners asked for a meeting with Jaros\u0142aw Kaczyn\u0301ski.<\/p>\n

The problem is that in matters of judiciary reform the Polish government doesn\u2019t seem very eager to make any significant steps back.<\/h2>\n

Yes, that\u2019s why the European Commission should also bear in mind that the current government and it\u2019s politics is backed only by the minority of Poles. The European leaders should not only talk with Law and Justice Party, but also try to reach the majority of Polish citizens, undertaking dialogue through a vast, dense network of institutions of civil society in Poland.<\/p>\n

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It\u2019s just natural that when you feel that you\u2019re discriminated, you\u2019re trying to protect yourself\u2014this is how the Eastern part of EU is reacting to Macron\u2019s proposals.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

To what end the conflict between Warsaw and Brussels could lead?<\/h2>\n

It\u2019s up to European Commission and European Council. You can be sure of one thing, though: there\u2019s going to be no \u201cPolexit.\u201d Poland is far too big and far too important for the EU to let it quit.<\/p>\n

Law and Justice Party believes that Poland is a natural leader of the region. The government is trying to integrate Central European countries around such projects as Three Seas Initiative. What do you think about the prospects of such endeavors?<\/h2>\n

I\u2019ve been observing politics for some time now, and after many years of experience I can say that almost every government is inventing new institutions to raise its influence. Many of them are vanishing after more or less brief period of time. To give you an example, I was instrumental in creating Central European Initiative decades ago. Now it hardly functions.<\/p>\n

What do you think are the greatest threats for Central European region and EU in general in the near future?<\/h2>\n

I think that\u2019s part of the problem, we\u2019re panicking about Orba\u0301n instead of discussing the real issues. Because the real danger for Europe is not Kaczyn\u0301ski but the politics of Mr. Putin. The real threat may come from the deeds of Turkey. Or from Chinese engagement in Africa, which could result in a new migration crisis. Besides that, Chinese are on a good way to overtake large part of European economy\u2014unless Europe strengthens itself. These are the strategic problems, I\u2019d worry more about them than about Mr. Kaczyn\u0301ski.<\/p>\n

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You\u2019ve mentioned Putin as a \u201creal problem\u201d for Europe. What do you think we can expect from his third term?<\/h2>\n

It\u2019s going to be a tough one, that\u2019s all that we can predict right now. I think that the West should perhaps reconsider its strategy towards Putin. I\u2019m quite sceptical about the sanctions. They don\u2019t seem to be working, maybe we need a different approach, try some dialogue with the Russian leader. It\u2019s obvious that Putin did break international law many times and Russia clearly deserved to be punished, but when you\u2019re imposing sanctions you also need a plan how to come out from them.<\/p>\n

And what about Ukraine in that situation?<\/h2>\n

The good thing is that it was possible to achieve some kind of armistice. It\u2019s sadly not completely respected on both sides, but it\u2019s partially working. EU should put pressure both on Moscow and Kiev to make them fulfil their promises.<\/p>\n

But it doesn\u2019t solve the Ukrainian problem in the long term, does it? What should be the blueprint of European politics towards Ukraine?<\/h2>\n

Europe has to learn from the failure of its own actions. Member states of the EU have no clue what the situation in Ukraine is really like. In the past we failed to develop a cohesive neighborhood policy towards Ukraine\u2014one that could help the Ukrainian state boost its economy, social affairs, civil society. The events of both Maidan revolutions were the effect of that failure. Now we have to develop a new plan for strategic cooperation.<\/p>\n

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Erhard Busek<\/h1>\n

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is former Vice Chancellor of Austria, minister for education, and chairman of the Chris- tian-conservative Austrian People \u0301s Party (O\u0308VP). In the past he served as a City Councilor and was elected Deputy-Mayor of Vienna. He is the Chairman of the Institute for the Danube Region and Central Europe. He was President of the European Forum Alpbach (EFA) from 2000 until 2012. In 2005, Mr. Busek became Chairman of the Advisory Board of Trustees of \u201cERSTE Foundation\u201d and President of the Vienna Economic Forum. He is also President of the EU-Russia Centre since 2010, and in 2009 he was an adviser to the Czech EU-Presidency. His most recent book is Mitteleuropa revisited: Warum Europas Zukunft in Mitteleuropa entschieden wird<\/em> (2018), co-written with Emil Brix.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

It\u2019s profoundly unfair to blame solely the new democracies of Visegrad group for anti-European sentiments\u2014says Erhard Busek in an interview with Jakub Majmurek. JAKUB MAJMUREK: Year 2018 marks not only the one-hundred-year anniversary of the end of World War I, but also of the end of the reign of House of Habsburg and Habsburg Empire. […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":18,"featured_media":7378,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[328,255,109,93,101,121],"class_list":["post-9500","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-nezarazene","tag-austria","tag-cee","tag-interview","tag-politics","tag-populism","tag-v4"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9500","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/18"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=9500"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9500\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":11057,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9500\/revisions\/11057"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/7378"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=9500"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=9500"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=9500"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}