{"id":9825,"date":"2022-10-18T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2022-10-17T22:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/aspeninstitutece.softmedia.cz\/article\/2022\/generation-grown-up-with-putin\/"},"modified":"2024-09-30T20:47:04","modified_gmt":"2024-09-30T18:47:04","slug":"generation-grown-up-with-putin","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/article\/2022\/generation-grown-up-with-putin\/","title":{"rendered":"A Whole Generation Has Grown Up with Putin&#8217;s Propaganda"},"content":{"rendered":"<h2><strong>Sven Lilienstr\u00f6m<\/strong>: Ms. Ovsyannikova, in a matter of minutes, you\u00a0became\u00a0a\u00a0global\u00a0icon\u00a0for\u00a0freedom\u00a0of the press and freedom\u00a0of expression, a\u00a0champion\u00a0of democracy. What\u00a0do democracy and\u00a0democratic\u00a0values\u00a0mean\u00a0to you personally?<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Marina Ovsyannikova:<\/strong> For me, democracy means being able to live as a free person.\u00a0<span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">However, my home country, Russia, has recently turned into a totalitarian state that is increasingly closing itself off from the outside world. Communication has been affected as well. Virtually all independent media outlets are blocked or classified as \u201cforeign agents\u201d and most social media platforms are no longer accessible.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><b>State-directed information propaganda is now almost the only news sources for the Russian people.<\/b><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">State-directed information propaganda is now almost the only news sources for the Russian people, leading to an information vacuum \u2013 which we have to overcome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I have always enjoyed traveling and talking to many different people. Therefore, democratic values are not empty phrases for me. On the contrary, these values mean that people in Russia can exchange their views with the whole world and express their point of view instead of living as obedient slaves in a totalitarian country!<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><b>Let&#8217;s\u00a0talk\u00a0about\u00a0the sign you held up\u00a0on March 14th during a live\u00a0broadcast\u00a0on Russian state television. How\u00a0exactly\u00a0did it\u00a0come\u00a0about? What\u00a0happened\u00a0immediately\u00a0afterwards? How\u00a0did\u00a0your\u00a0colleagues\u00a0react?<\/b><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">My desire to protest had been growing for many years. I disagreed with the policy of the channel <em>Perwy kanal<\/em>, as well as with some other developments that occurred and still occur in our country.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The wish to speak out was simmering inside me, but for personal reasons I could not quit immediately. However, that changed abruptly with the start of the war. It was clear to me that I could not work for <em>Perwy kanal<\/em> one day longer. In the heat of the moment, I considered going to <em>Maneshnaya Square<\/em> to protest, but at the last moment, my son stopped me.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><b>By Monday, I knew: it was now or never.<\/b><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I had the idea for holding up a poster the following weekend. I went to the stationery store around the corner, bought a highlighter and some paper. At home, I drew the poster. And by Monday, I knew: it was now or never. My original plan was to place myself more in the background of the TV studio. However, at the last moment I felt a strong \u201cemotional impulse.\u201d I decided to run into the studio, cross a security barrier and stand directly behind the presenter.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Everything happened in a flash. The security guard \u2013 a nice girl \u2013 had no time to get her bearings, let alone understand what had just happened. Nothing had anything like this happened in the 50-year history of <em>Vremya<\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">After a few seconds, I left the studio, looking calm on the outside, and walked down the central corridor. The entire management team of <em>Perwy kanal<\/em> was already coming towards me. I had to make a written statement in the office of the deputy director. Then the police, who had been called in, escorted me to my office. The atmosphere was unreal. All the employees present just stood there looking at me, completely dazed. They didn\u2019t understand what had happened. They didn\u2019t understand how something like this could happen at all.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Russian journalist Marina Ovsyannikova fined after anti-war protest during state-run newscast\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/EU12Y3s70BA?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2><b>On the german talk show <em>Markus Lanz<\/em>, you said\u00a0you wanted\u00a0to\u00a0wake up\u00a0Russians\u00a0who\u00a0had\u00a0been\u00a0turned\u00a0into \u201czombies\u201d\u00a0by Russian propaganda. Do you\u00a0think\u00a0you\u00a0succeeded\u00a0in doing that?<\/b><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Judging<\/span> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">by the fact that most people around me think the same way I do, it\u2019s hard to judge how successful the campaign was in the end. My friends, neighbors and acquaintances support me as much as they can. Many people have written me or commented on my statement in social media.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But when I ask people why they don\u2019t take to the streets, why they don\u2019t take action themselves, the answer is usually: \u201cWe\u2019re afraid. It\u2019s better not to get involved in politics!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><b>Since March 4th, Russia has issued\u00a0prison\u00a0sentences\u00a0of up to 15\u00a0years\u00a0for\u00a0unpopular reporting. What does this mean for journalism? Is it enough to wake people up if they don&#8217;t dare to demonstrate?<\/b><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, of course, that\u2019s not enough! People form their opinions, but state propaganda in Russia is very advanced. Just today I read in a recent poll that 81 percent of people in Russia support Putin\u2019s \u201cactions.\u201d I don\u2019t know if this poll result is true and if this data can be trusted. My perception is that more than half of Russians do not support this war.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><b>There are some people in Russia who are willing to put everything on the line: their lives, as well as the lives of their families.<\/b><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">On Saturday, protests again took place in Moscow and many other cities in Russia. Several dozen people were arrested, but the masses are keeping quiet. People are really afraid.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Nevertheless, there are some \u2013 albeit few \u2013 people in Russia who are willing to put everything on the line: their lives, as well as the lives of their families, all in the name of active protest!<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><b>You said\u00a0you are\u00a0surprised\u00a0that you have not yet been\u00a0convicted\u00a0for\u00a0the poster\u00a0you held.\u00a0Do\u00a0you think\u00a0Vladimir Putin\u00a0is using\u00a0your media\u00a0publicity\u00a0to\u00a0portray\u00a0himself as a\u00a0champion\u00a0of the rule of law?<\/b><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">After my protest moment, the leaders of <em>Perwy kanal<\/em> kept silent for a week. They did not know how to react. They screened me on the basis of all available sources. And not only me, but my relatives as well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Only a week later my direct superior Kirill Kleimyonov went public with a report claiming that I was a British spy, which is totally absurd! Since then, I have had the feeling that I am being watched at every turn.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><b>There are active calls to put me behind bars.<\/b><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Many people ask me the one question, \u201cWhy aren\u2019t you in prison?\u201d I think that to some extent Russian propaganda is fine with me communicating with Western media. It may be that my notoriety \u2013 at least at the moment \u2013 serves the Kremlin\u2019s interests. I cannot say what the leading FSB forces of our country think. But there are active calls to put me behind bars. A new administrative procedure was initiated, but two days later it was withdrawn. Now my lawyers are waiting to see what charges will be brought. We are waiting to see what will happen next.<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><b>Relations\u00a0between Russia and\u00a0the West have reached a low point since the Russia-Ukraine\u00a0conflict. Do you think a \u201cnormalization\u201d of\u00a0relations\u00a0under Vladimir\u00a0Putin is realistic?<\/b><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Absolutely not. Under Vladimir Putin, normal relations are impossible. Russia has been engaged in aggressive propaganda against the West and all Western values for the last ten years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">During that entire time, people in this country have been led to believe that the West is trying to destroy Russia, that America and Britain are our enemies, and so is the Western media.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><b>There are shows where Ukrainians are consistently labeled as nationalists and fascists.<\/b><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This propaganda is repeated in the \u201cinsane\u201d shows on TV: there are shows where Ukrainians are consistently labeled as nationalists and fascists.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If they continually repeat that \u201cblack\u201d is actually \u201cwhite,\u201d people will eventually believe it. We have been very aggressive on television all these years; in fact, there was state information propaganda in all the media, directed specifically against the West. A whole generation has grown up with Putin\u2019s propaganda. It is simply terrible. I think that nothing will change under Vladimir Putin. It will only be possible if a new generation of leaders is elected, a generation that does not think within the patterns of the Cold War. Only then will we be able to \u201cpatch up\u201d our battered relations with the West.<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><b>How did your family and close friends react to your\u00a0protest\u00a0action\u00a0on Russian\u00a0television? Were\u00a0there\u00a0people\u00a0who\u00a0advised\u00a0against it?<\/b><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The situation is very difficult. My son, my mother and I have completely opposite political views. My mother belongs to the older generation. She listens to state propaganda from morning to night, listens to Vladimir Soloviev. Therefore, it is impossible to talk to her or to convince her of anything else. I have often tried to establish a kind of dialogue with her: \u201cMom, I\u2019m working. I know how to do it, listen to me\u2026\u201d But she doesn\u2019t understand anything, she answers using recited phrases from TV or radio. Such as that the West is our enemy, that everyone wants to destroy our country.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><b>I can\u2019t talk to my mother for more than five minutes. We have completely contradictory sets of values.<\/b><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is why I can\u2019t talk to my mother for more than five minutes. We have completely contradictory sets of values. When we start talking about political issues, we always end up arguing. So, I don\u2019t even try to talk to her about it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Even my son does not support me. He says I ruined the family\u2019s life \u2013 also because I got a divorce. In addition, his father \u2013 that is, my ex-husband \u2013 works for another government propaganda channel, <em>RT<\/em>. So we are on two opposite sides of the information war. He fully supports the Kremlin propaganda. I, on the other hand, have more liberal views. Accordingly, my ex-husband teaches our children his values, while I try to give them a different perspective.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Fortunately, my daughter is still small. She does not understand the political connections. But she senses what is happening right now in and with our family.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><em>The interview has been published in cooperation with\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.faces-of-democracy.org\/marina-ovsyannikova\" rel=\"noopener\">Faces of Democracy <\/a>initiative.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This year, Marina Ovsyannikova interrupted a broadcast of Vremya to protest against the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which made international news headlines. What led her to do this courageous move and what were the consequences?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":18,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[109,95,196,511],"class_list":["post-9825","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-nezarazene","tag-interview","tag-propaganda","tag-russia","tag-war"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9825","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/18"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=9825"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9825\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":11135,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9825\/revisions\/11135"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=9825"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=9825"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.aspeninstitutece.org\/cs\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=9825"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}